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kinow 4 hours ago [-]
I'm finishing a masters here in Spain about HPC (uploaded the thesis last night). It's a joint program by two universities from Galicia (USC/UDC). I paid about the same the author did. The programme is great, loved the professors --- I contacted them after the class and the interactions were helpful/interesting. Like in the author's case, my master had a lot of practical work (which is good, being in computing/HPC). But the workload is *really crazy*. Assignment pretty much every week, with overlapping deadlines.
There's something here called "second chance", which I don't remember seeing this in Brazil. My wife did a masters at University of Barcelona and they also had a second chance. In every subject if you fail, then you take the exam or submit some assignments to get the required grade. Some students realised they wouldn't get a good grade, and preferred to skip the exam or assignment, just to get a better grade on the second chance to graduate with a good score/honours/etc.. I found that interesting, but I focused more learning things that would help me at $work and tried to avoid stress (I was probably the oldest student in my class, 40+ yo).
jmspring 17 hours ago [-]
We will be hopping over to Italy/France/or Croatia in the next year or so. Work will not be the motivator, but we both have options.
In the states during late covid, I thought the downtime would be good to do a second masters in something unrelated to working in software. I chose a remote program with a univeristy here in the states, I did the first year, but it reminded me that studying - especially a program unrelated to anything you have currently done - is actually not easy.
I chose Geology. I have BS/BA in Comp Eng and Chemistry and an MS in Comp Eng. So this was personal interest.
Revisiting math I hadn't used in awhile was the easy part. Making the time, while working, reminded my why I also ended up ABD (all but dissertation - toward PHD) post masters. Sometimes your brain needs to relax.
Glad it worked for you. And the European Universities are significantly cheaper than Universities in the states (this was a state univerisity which is - per state - considered a step above a state school. For instance a UC vs a CSU in california).
mishellaneous 12 hours ago [-]
so you go to university just for the joy of learning?
to be clear, i think that's cool, and i might try it at some point.
but how do you deal with the fact that university, in practice, is not "for the joy of learning"?
for most people there, students and professors, it's more like "just a job". and this does have an effect. colleagues that only want to pass the test and are watching out for their careers (or even worse, don't even care about anything and are there because of societal expectations) do not make good learning companions. professors who are very dispassionate about the subject don't want you taking up their time with fancy questions and administer dumb tests such that studying for the test is useless beyond passing the course.
(to be clear i'm not criticizing these people directly. obviously, i understand that bills have to be paid -- after all, i took some fun electives, not a degree in fun)
personally, during my time in university i did try a lot of elective courses "for the joy". it forced me a schedule, which was good, because it's something i struggled with self-studying. a few times, professors offered some real gems of knowledge which i wouldn't have found otherwise. and obviously, in practical classes, i got to play stuff i otherwise wouldn't. but the battle against the bullshit took up most of my time and energy.
jmspring 15 minutes ago [-]
I nearly triple majored (or a minor) because I took Lit classes for fun when doing my Bachelors. Due to the impacted nature of that school now, I don't think it would be possible to duplicate what I did. Sometimes, for me, having a bit of structure helps focus on an interest - undergrad it was literature (beyond other courses, work, and being social - not sleeping much was I guess helpful at the time).
When I spent about 8 years living in a remote area with a lot of old mines, etc. exploring rocks, having a mining claim, etc was interesting and it was not directly related to work. So, trying Geology made some sense because I had an interest.
Yes the near Lit minor and my second Bachelors (chemistry) were literally for fun - but there was a roundedness to not just staring at computers all the time.
Different people have different interests and approaches.
Also costs when I was doing the initial schooling wasn't as bad as it is now (a TAing job, working in a lab, and maybe some part time tech support) covered most bills. Rent, tuition, and other expenses were under 10k for the year - even at a UC - yes this was awhile ago. My step-daughter is looking at closer to $30k a year (give or take) for a CSU.
drakonka 12 hours ago [-]
I started doing this after moving to a university town at the end of 2024. Just taking random evening courses that sounded interesting. Having never studied past high school, it's been excellent! My first ever course was on nuclear weapons and disarmament and it was fascinating - we had professors with such a huge amount of experience researching and working directly with disarmament negotiations, policies, inspection missions, etc. Then it was a biology course with the most passionate teacher I've ever met. Last term I took a cosmology course and learned a ton about cosmology from different perspectives. My professors have all been great in the few courses I've done so far, and I don't pay attention to other students so much aside from when necessary for group work.
SiempreViernes 12 hours ago [-]
> but how do you deal with the fact that university, in practice, is not "for the joy of learning"?
I think this strongly depends on the subject you study, most people in mechanical engineering will have a very different attitude to people studying world literature or astrophysics.
mishellaneous 11 hours ago [-]
good to know, thanks. it does make sense.
there's still the professors though. the courses may not necessarily be different from their point of view.
also, what do you make of physics grads going to work on finance? doesn't strike as very "scholarly" of them, at first.
olsondv 11 hours ago [-]
Physics is applying math to Model phenomena. Finance is already numbers so it’s a good fit. If you are insinuating the money corrupts it, they’re paid for the skills they developed. Are medical doctors less noble because they make massive salaries?
mishellaneous 11 hours ago [-]
we were explicitly talking about people who went to university "for the joy of learning", instead of, as was cited as one of the examples, to prepare themselves for a good career, and how the latter can detract from the experience of the former.
physics students were cited as examples of people who went to university "for the joy of learning". i mentioned the existence of a path from a physics education to a very well-paying career which is moreover not generally considered intellectually stimulating, which suggests (though certainly not proves) the existence of (some -- though certainly not necessarily all) physics students who are not really there "for the joy of learning" -- which again, was one of the concerns i originally cited.
if you are or know a physics grad who studied physics "for the joy of learning" and then worked on finance and you think i'm not correct (say, because finance is actually intellectually stimulating, or that you were really into learning when in school but now are more focused on your career (i actually know a bunch of people for whom this is one is true, now that i think of it), or...), then by all means feel free to share your story, as this is literally what my question was about.
certainly questions can be raised about "corruption" and "nobility", as you did, but i did not intend to do that.
kelipso 9 hours ago [-]
> Are medical doctors less noble because they make massive salaries?
Aren’t they? Would you say a doctor who works for no money is more noble? I would.
SiempreViernes 8 hours ago [-]
Here's an article where a physics grad himself is calling being a quant as "the dark side", it's from last year but the expression is much older.
At the end of the day part of what makes (theoretical) physics "scholarly" is the poor job prospects outside of academia, but there simply aren't enough positions for everyone graduating with a masters and they have to find some job eventually. Being a quant certainly beats becoming weapon designers.
badpun 9 hours ago [-]
In my country studies are free, which means humanities (like "world literature") are full of young people who had no idea what to do with themselves, so they chose a major in something vaguely interesting and not very demanding, mostly so that they get to extend their youth by a couple of years (as parents will often support them while they get their degree, which means not having to work).
retired 9 hours ago [-]
I’m guessing Nordics?
ErigmolCt 14 hours ago [-]
Geology is a great choice. I sometimes think the best subjects to study are the ones that have nothing to do with your job, but they're also the hardest to justify when your brain is already tired from work
alpineman 13 hours ago [-]
You are welcome in Europe, we need all the talent we can get :)
gib444 15 hours ago [-]
> Work will not be the motivator, but we both have options.
Which work visa did you apply for? Or do you have an EU passport?
jmspring 8 hours ago [-]
EU passport through my wife's family.
retired 12 hours ago [-]
I studied in The Netherlands about ten years ago and it was very cheap. Around €10k a year total for tuition, room and board. Most of my peers graduated with only €30k in debt as they worked evenings and weekends during their education. Meanwhile I read online about Americans going in debt for $200k
emptyfile 12 hours ago [-]
[dead]
cjd8 14 hours ago [-]
Great job! A few months ago I was kicked out of university for failing my Real Analysis course a second time (4 years of CS suddenly gone, thesis was half done) and had to get a full time job. Now I got accepted to a different public university to study on a weekend basis. This article makes me less anxious about my upcoming studies.
pepperoni_pizza 11 hours ago [-]
You can reapply as a new student and get your finished classes accepted as finished in the new study.
My friend was in a similar situation as you, the same school, possibly, except it was "Electric Circuits 2".
On Wednesday he failed the last exam, Thursday he applied as new student, on Monday he was 1st year student and by Friday he was 3rd year student with all classes accepted. Still had to do the Electric Circuits 2 of course.
oersted 13 hours ago [-]
That sounds incredibly harsh. What kind of university was it? Is there more to the story?
Kicking someone out and effectively voiding all progress just for failing one challenging final year class twice is completely mad.
Was it rather that you lost a scholarship and couldn’t afford to finish or something like that?
Sorry to dwell, I’m sure it must be painful, I wish you the best luck.
cjd8 12 hours ago [-]
Essentially all Czech universities have a rule where you can only twice enroll in the same course - failing to do so will lead to termination. Nevertheless I still have my credits so I'll try to get them accepted at the new university.
It was mostly painful to see people I had courses with graduate just this month, however I do have a good software engineering job so all is well?
StefanBatory 12 hours ago [-]
is there no way to appeal? It works the same in Polish uni I'm in, but uhh, there I was allowed to appeal and they stamped it by default
And I'm very sorry to hear that either way :(
cjd8 12 hours ago [-]
There is, however I didn't really have a valid reason for an appeal so I just went ahead with it and started applying for jobs.
m12k 12 hours ago [-]
I don't know about the rest of Europe, but in Denmark, universities get a part of their funding based on the number of graduates. So the university has an incentive to help student actually graduate instead of kicking them out. That may or may not matter to the bureaucrat responding to an appeal - but I'd certainly not just assume that "I'm close to graduation, just let me do this one more exam attempt" isn't a good enough reason for them to let you try.
cjd8 12 hours ago [-]
Ah, well in the Czech Republic universities get funding based on the number of currently enrolled students, not graduates. Some places will therefore accept 1000 into a CS program, only to have <100 people actually graduate.
As for the appeal - these usually aren't successful, even my thesis advisor said that he probably wouldn't go out of his way to talk to the analysis course examiner etc. etc.
SecretDreams 12 hours ago [-]
You miss every shot you don't take. Don't be ashamed or afraid to appeal. At worst, nothing changes.
FabHK 7 hours ago [-]
Sorry, that strikes me as the norm. Graduation is predicated on passing certain courses, and obviously you can't take it an arbitrary number of times. So fail an exam twice, and you're out. (Some universities offer a final oral exam after failing a written exam twice.)
ramon156 14 hours ago [-]
Very sorry to hear that. Glad you're still going on, that's the right mindset!
cosmodisk 16 hours ago [-]
I did study for my undergraduate degree( design & business) full time whilst also working full time. Graduated when I was almost 30. It took me 10 years until I wanted to study anything again.
Now I'm studying part time for my masters degree( cybersec) whilst also working full time, only this time the job is very mentally draining.
ErigmolCt 14 hours ago [-]
Respect for going back after 10 years, honestly. Cybersec while working full time sounds useful but definitely not light
SiempreViernes 11 hours ago [-]
> Culture-wise, the professors at the university were also very different than what I was used to in Germany. [...] My thesis advisor, Alicia Ageno, for instance, had a meeting with me about every two weeks and sent me relevant papers and advice on a subject that was not her current research topic anymore.
This makes german supervision sound pretty abysmal! Maybe that's why the thesis project I had with a German professor crashed and burned (I was to implement an simulation method, and he wouldn't help with debugging), they are just raised in a culture where you don't help students?
ecshafer 6 hours ago [-]
I have never heard of a professor at any level helping a student debug code past maybe CS1.
MHard 10 hours ago [-]
I believe it comes down to the difference between master‘s and bachelor’s as well as the size of the university.
After showing the article to one of my friends who‘s doing the thesis right now, he told me that his experience with his supervisor is very different from mine. In my case I might have gotten very lucky.
high_na_euv 10 hours ago [-]
Every school, branch, class, hell - even year at the same school with same profs is different
retired 11 hours ago [-]
Doing my thesis in The Netherlands I got guidance on my thesis three times. Once during the start to get an initial baseline of what is expected of me, once halfway through as a quick call to see if everything was going according to schedule and once when I had the concept ready.
If you need someone to hold your hand every other week perhaps you shouldn’t go into academics. You should be operating autonomous at that point.
abdullahkhalids 6 hours ago [-]
This is a weird viewpoint. Most academic work in STEM fields is collaborative with 2-100 other scientists or engineers. This is because it is well realized that 2 people talking can do many times better work than two people working alone.
Your supervisor should at different times, as appropriate, wear the collaborator cap or the examiner cap. During the course of your project, he should be your collaborative advisor who helps you flesh out ideas and improve them. At the start and end, he should be your formal examiner.
This is how I have seen most Masters (and PhD) projects proceed in Physics in North America.
david-gpu 9 hours ago [-]
A Master's thesis is not for somebody aiming for academia. It is a requirement for graduation. Rather different from a PhD.
retired 7 hours ago [-]
In The Netherlands all Masters at a university are to prepare you for an academic career.
progbits 9 hours ago [-]
This comment is little abrasive but there is truth to it.
I've seen many people who are quite competent under close supervision but completely clueless on their own.
We could debate if academia would be better off with different approach though.
aleph_minus_one 8 hours ago [-]
> I've seen many people who are quite competent under close supervision but completely clueless on their own.
Being able to work on complicated research topics on your own is what universities are centrally preparing for.
If you really need close supervision, you likely are not made for academia or often not even for a course of studies at a university.
Yes, this is a harsh truth, but academia is really a brutal game of sink or swim.
david-gpu 8 hours ago [-]
A Master's degree is hardly academia, is it? A PhD is the starting point for a career in research, and even that does not necessarily imply academia, either.
aleph_minus_one 8 hours ago [-]
> A Master's degree is hardly academia, is it?
In Germany, the master degree is considered as such. Basically the final test before you decide for or against "the whole brutal game of joining a doctoral study program".
A professor that I know clearly said: "In a master's thesis I expect something scientifically novel. It does not have to be something deep, but if you want 'a 1 before the comma' (in Germany, the grading at a uninversity goes from 1,0 to 5,0 where 5,0 means 'failed'), it has to be something scientifically novel. The number after the mark is to distinguish whether it is really a deep discovery or not."
Be also culturally aware that in practice, for a final thesis
- 1.0 means "good",
- 1.3 means "average",
- 1.7 means "bad",
- everything below (from 2.0 on) basically means "failure" (you get a degree, but are marked as failure).
So, the professor clearly stated that every grade for a master thesis that "is not in practice a failure grade" means "some novel scientific discovery". And every grade that is better than "in practice 'bad'" means "some very non-trivial scientific discovery".
I know that many professors think this way, though most of them would phrase this more diplomatically.
pvaldes 6 hours ago [-]
Your mileage may vary.
shivajreddy 13 hours ago [-]
I am 31(still fell 20) studying Electrical Engineering, while working full time as a Software Engineer, its tough, I wouldn’t have it any other way.
the_real_cher 11 hours ago [-]
Where?
ErigmolCt 14 hours ago [-]
It feels like the real reason many people go back to school: not some grand career optimization plan, but being bored, stuck and wanting life to move again
madprops 17 hours ago [-]
Felicidades. Sometimes I think about returning to a public university to have something structured to do, especially since I've been in a way educating myself through AI and I appreciate the idea of an environment dedicated to people with a similar intellectual interest. I don't really care about academia, if I do it it would be an experimental change of environment. If there is even a place for people like me in that public university at all (older people).
SiempreViernes 11 hours ago [-]
I know of a pensioner who successfully did up to a Masters in astronomy, so there are definitely examples of older people as students in academia (not to mention many the professors are older, and especially the emeritus professors).
MHard 14 hours ago [-]
I think it’s worth a try. Being a bit older than the rest (almost thirties) when I started also gave me pause at first. But I felt that people were very welcoming regardless of your situation.
taveras 17 hours ago [-]
Super grateful to read stories like these.
I'm studying part-time to complete a BA in political science while working full-time as a software developer. I love learning the subject, but the workload can be tough. Happy to hear it's not just me.
Thank you for sharing!
MHard 14 hours ago [-]
My pleasure. Good luck with your studies!
igleria 13 hours ago [-]
First and foremost, congrats!
In Argentina doing a bachelor + master while working is called a Monday. It's partially unfortunate since it "delays" the finish date of the degree and even makes a lot of people drop out because they found a cushy enough job.
But coming out with a degree along with years of professional experience makes up for the "delay" in getting the degree at least tenfold.
elric 13 hours ago [-]
I've been considering doing the same (going back to uni, not moving to Barcelona). But I find the choices are overwhelming, and the time investment is no joke.
egl2020 12 hours ago [-]
What about language was used in the masters program? Spanish? I'm guessing that German is your first language.
MrDresden 16 hours ago [-]
Being now in my late 30s I worry that the ship has sailed on being able to do a masters degree while juggling adult life as well.
MHard 14 hours ago [-]
I wouldn’t let that discourage you. During my time there I did meet people well in their mid thirties juggling work, kids and the masters. Depending on your country, universities can do a lot of accommodations to parents if that’s in the picture.
laszlojamf 16 hours ago [-]
yeah, what I feel happens is that priorities get a lot harder. I'm two courses and a project away from a master in robotics, but when you have a steady, well-paying job already and a spouse and kid, it's gets really hard to motivate exactly _why_ you want that degree.
ionwake 11 hours ago [-]
>work
>spain
the conclusion was as expected
edit> Spain is one of my fav countries and I may even be half spanish, Im just saying if I was going to focus on work Id move to the nordics or the US
Scroll_Swe 15 hours ago [-]
We get CSN :) You have to be native though hehe
lewistaariq 17 hours ago [-]
Now we just need the pics of beaches, bars, and your presentations!
There's something here called "second chance", which I don't remember seeing this in Brazil. My wife did a masters at University of Barcelona and they also had a second chance. In every subject if you fail, then you take the exam or submit some assignments to get the required grade. Some students realised they wouldn't get a good grade, and preferred to skip the exam or assignment, just to get a better grade on the second chance to graduate with a good score/honours/etc.. I found that interesting, but I focused more learning things that would help me at $work and tried to avoid stress (I was probably the oldest student in my class, 40+ yo).
In the states during late covid, I thought the downtime would be good to do a second masters in something unrelated to working in software. I chose a remote program with a univeristy here in the states, I did the first year, but it reminded me that studying - especially a program unrelated to anything you have currently done - is actually not easy.
I chose Geology. I have BS/BA in Comp Eng and Chemistry and an MS in Comp Eng. So this was personal interest.
Revisiting math I hadn't used in awhile was the easy part. Making the time, while working, reminded my why I also ended up ABD (all but dissertation - toward PHD) post masters. Sometimes your brain needs to relax.
Glad it worked for you. And the European Universities are significantly cheaper than Universities in the states (this was a state univerisity which is - per state - considered a step above a state school. For instance a UC vs a CSU in california).
to be clear, i think that's cool, and i might try it at some point.
but how do you deal with the fact that university, in practice, is not "for the joy of learning"?
for most people there, students and professors, it's more like "just a job". and this does have an effect. colleagues that only want to pass the test and are watching out for their careers (or even worse, don't even care about anything and are there because of societal expectations) do not make good learning companions. professors who are very dispassionate about the subject don't want you taking up their time with fancy questions and administer dumb tests such that studying for the test is useless beyond passing the course.
(to be clear i'm not criticizing these people directly. obviously, i understand that bills have to be paid -- after all, i took some fun electives, not a degree in fun)
personally, during my time in university i did try a lot of elective courses "for the joy". it forced me a schedule, which was good, because it's something i struggled with self-studying. a few times, professors offered some real gems of knowledge which i wouldn't have found otherwise. and obviously, in practical classes, i got to play stuff i otherwise wouldn't. but the battle against the bullshit took up most of my time and energy.
When I spent about 8 years living in a remote area with a lot of old mines, etc. exploring rocks, having a mining claim, etc was interesting and it was not directly related to work. So, trying Geology made some sense because I had an interest.
Yes the near Lit minor and my second Bachelors (chemistry) were literally for fun - but there was a roundedness to not just staring at computers all the time.
Different people have different interests and approaches.
Also costs when I was doing the initial schooling wasn't as bad as it is now (a TAing job, working in a lab, and maybe some part time tech support) covered most bills. Rent, tuition, and other expenses were under 10k for the year - even at a UC - yes this was awhile ago. My step-daughter is looking at closer to $30k a year (give or take) for a CSU.
I think this strongly depends on the subject you study, most people in mechanical engineering will have a very different attitude to people studying world literature or astrophysics.
there's still the professors though. the courses may not necessarily be different from their point of view.
also, what do you make of physics grads going to work on finance? doesn't strike as very "scholarly" of them, at first.
physics students were cited as examples of people who went to university "for the joy of learning". i mentioned the existence of a path from a physics education to a very well-paying career which is moreover not generally considered intellectually stimulating, which suggests (though certainly not proves) the existence of (some -- though certainly not necessarily all) physics students who are not really there "for the joy of learning" -- which again, was one of the concerns i originally cited.
if you are or know a physics grad who studied physics "for the joy of learning" and then worked on finance and you think i'm not correct (say, because finance is actually intellectually stimulating, or that you were really into learning when in school but now are more focused on your career (i actually know a bunch of people for whom this is one is true, now that i think of it), or...), then by all means feel free to share your story, as this is literally what my question was about.
certainly questions can be raised about "corruption" and "nobility", as you did, but i did not intend to do that.
Aren’t they? Would you say a doctor who works for no money is more noble? I would.
https://www.colorado.edu/physics/2025/09/22/quantum-physics-...
At the end of the day part of what makes (theoretical) physics "scholarly" is the poor job prospects outside of academia, but there simply aren't enough positions for everyone graduating with a masters and they have to find some job eventually. Being a quant certainly beats becoming weapon designers.
Which work visa did you apply for? Or do you have an EU passport?
My friend was in a similar situation as you, the same school, possibly, except it was "Electric Circuits 2".
On Wednesday he failed the last exam, Thursday he applied as new student, on Monday he was 1st year student and by Friday he was 3rd year student with all classes accepted. Still had to do the Electric Circuits 2 of course.
Kicking someone out and effectively voiding all progress just for failing one challenging final year class twice is completely mad.
Was it rather that you lost a scholarship and couldn’t afford to finish or something like that?
Sorry to dwell, I’m sure it must be painful, I wish you the best luck.
It was mostly painful to see people I had courses with graduate just this month, however I do have a good software engineering job so all is well?
And I'm very sorry to hear that either way :(
As for the appeal - these usually aren't successful, even my thesis advisor said that he probably wouldn't go out of his way to talk to the analysis course examiner etc. etc.
Now I'm studying part time for my masters degree( cybersec) whilst also working full time, only this time the job is very mentally draining.
This makes german supervision sound pretty abysmal! Maybe that's why the thesis project I had with a German professor crashed and burned (I was to implement an simulation method, and he wouldn't help with debugging), they are just raised in a culture where you don't help students?
After showing the article to one of my friends who‘s doing the thesis right now, he told me that his experience with his supervisor is very different from mine. In my case I might have gotten very lucky.
If you need someone to hold your hand every other week perhaps you shouldn’t go into academics. You should be operating autonomous at that point.
Your supervisor should at different times, as appropriate, wear the collaborator cap or the examiner cap. During the course of your project, he should be your collaborative advisor who helps you flesh out ideas and improve them. At the start and end, he should be your formal examiner.
This is how I have seen most Masters (and PhD) projects proceed in Physics in North America.
I've seen many people who are quite competent under close supervision but completely clueless on their own.
We could debate if academia would be better off with different approach though.
Being able to work on complicated research topics on your own is what universities are centrally preparing for.
If you really need close supervision, you likely are not made for academia or often not even for a course of studies at a university.
Yes, this is a harsh truth, but academia is really a brutal game of sink or swim.
In Germany, the master degree is considered as such. Basically the final test before you decide for or against "the whole brutal game of joining a doctoral study program".
A professor that I know clearly said: "In a master's thesis I expect something scientifically novel. It does not have to be something deep, but if you want 'a 1 before the comma' (in Germany, the grading at a uninversity goes from 1,0 to 5,0 where 5,0 means 'failed'), it has to be something scientifically novel. The number after the mark is to distinguish whether it is really a deep discovery or not."
Be also culturally aware that in practice, for a final thesis
- 1.0 means "good",
- 1.3 means "average",
- 1.7 means "bad",
- everything below (from 2.0 on) basically means "failure" (you get a degree, but are marked as failure).
So, the professor clearly stated that every grade for a master thesis that "is not in practice a failure grade" means "some novel scientific discovery". And every grade that is better than "in practice 'bad'" means "some very non-trivial scientific discovery".
I know that many professors think this way, though most of them would phrase this more diplomatically.
I'm studying part-time to complete a BA in political science while working full-time as a software developer. I love learning the subject, but the workload can be tough. Happy to hear it's not just me.
Thank you for sharing!
In Argentina doing a bachelor + master while working is called a Monday. It's partially unfortunate since it "delays" the finish date of the degree and even makes a lot of people drop out because they found a cushy enough job.
But coming out with a degree along with years of professional experience makes up for the "delay" in getting the degree at least tenfold.
the conclusion was as expected
edit> Spain is one of my fav countries and I may even be half spanish, Im just saying if I was going to focus on work Id move to the nordics or the US