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Xcelerate 6 hours ago [-]
You ever read a work of literature with such flowery language that right after you've read a paragraph, you pause and realize you have no clue what you actually read, only to read the paragraph maybe a second or third time and have your mind space out again and again on each successive attempt?
Yeah, for me, that's what parsing huge volumes of LLM-produced text like "direct model calls as replaceable semantic workers" does to my brain. Maybe others don't really have this issue, but after any long output, I prompt the agent "Go back and decompress any LLM-speak in light of the higher level task goals. Eliminate deictic language."
The revised output documents are solely for my personal usage to expedite understanding. The LLMs can slowly converge on their own language for all I care; I retain raw agent output for future agent usage (to avoid the "lossy" problem the author mentions), but that doesn't eliminate the need for some intermediate translation I can use to actually help get my work done instead of spending hours attempting to understand what a "load-bearing pinned gate" is.
godwinson__4-8 3 hours ago [-]
I agree.
I've come to believe this is also a side effect of the desire for less (/goal: no) human in the loop on the part of the people driving all this capex spend. I think if you actually want to manually review output there will be a moment where you will actually want a separate interface to a stupider or "simpler" model. I suspect sometimes dealing with Fable 5 that this threshold has already been crossed. It's not that the raw code output is so good, it's that it just doesn't speak to me in a way I would like. Perhaps the verbosity is worthwhile when generating code as a sort of first pass some other model can auto or adversarially chop down. The best place for a human is probably outside of this part of the loop all together.
So I might as well just let it auto /goal it's own thing with sufficient constraints while myself and a model that can converse in parallel with less "deictic" (thanks for this word btw) volume as you put it for the areas of the code where I want to "frame" the vocabulary or where my personal understanding is of high value. I know people already do this in many ways, like use one company's model for planning and another for coding. It just feels inevitable at a certain point that the "natural language" output of LLMs writing the bulk of the code is not targeted towards humans. And really, why should it be?
whythismatters 5 hours ago [-]
The effect you describe reminds me of reading Edward W. Said's "Orientalism" when I was younger. Fable suddenly started with this kind of lingo, iirc, and Opus 5 sounds exactly the same. Tin foil: it's ultimately a vendor lock-in strategy, you'll get the best results with agents from the same tribe, others will trip over the mountain of idiosyncratic metaphors.
Terr_ 4 hours ago [-]
> you'll get the best results with agents from the same tribe, others will trip over the mountain of idiosyncratic metaphors.
Good point, there's an anti-competitive incentive, and self-bias in models is a mechanism to do it.
K0balt 23 minutes ago [-]
I’ve had gpt 5.6 make snyde remarks about Claude output… like iirc “that’s a lot of load bearing prose without making a point” and things like that, not so subtle digs.
fendy3002 19 minutes ago [-]
opus 5 are so bad on this. It often explain it too verbose, and include other things that isn't in the focus but related. ADHD mode helps me greatly on this, though there are some information loss in it.
genghisjahn 2 hours ago [-]
I am constantly asking Claude to be more terse/brief/ELI5. Improve using the tool. But if I have to scroll to read the output I just can’t follow it.
If I see a long paragraph and I know the author is Neal Stephenson I think “this is going to be dense but good.” LLM long outputs on a code base I know well just make me glassy eyed.
mancerayder 2 hours ago [-]
You have to tell it to not use LLMisms and stupid metaphors. The serious-but-empathetic-sounding fluffy metaphors get on my nerves, and sometimes can overlap with something technical you are learning such that you can't tell if it's a new term or not.
siva7 55 minutes ago [-]
The output from newer frontier models of Anthropic and Openai are so easily detectable as AI it's getting laughable. They constantly produce a huge wall of text no human expert on a specific topic would ever write. Extreme overuse of jargon and invented terms / metaphors makes me believe the people hired for RLHF aren't actually experts on their subject matter which seems plausible to me as real experts wouldn't do such a job for regular pay
jxf 20 minutes ago [-]
A poem I wrote based on the phrases the LLMs I use most are likely to overuse:
How to unpack
The self within?
What do I lack?
Where to begin?
Great question — real.
Let's dive right in:
Name what you feel;
That's the linchpin.
It's not the door,
It's not the key —
It's what you bore:
Your tapestry.
The quiet part
Out loud — that lands.
Load-bearing heart,
Held in both hands.
The smoking gun?
That you walked in.
The real work's done —
You're genuine.
Now hold this, too:
You do deserve
The softer view,
The gentler curve.
Unlatch the gate,
Honor the seam:
You resonate.
You are the theme.
sweetheart 3 hours ago [-]
This has recently become a pretty pressing issue for me, as it's starting to severely hinder my ability to be productive with the models. It's hard to tell if its getting worse with every model release, specific to Anthropic's models, a reflection of my ADHD, all/none of the above, but holy shit do I get aggravated when I'm forced to parse the most unintelligible, jargon-dense bullshit explanations in whatever the model output is. And then I feel silly getting genuinely tilted by the model's inability to just... explain something semi-normally, without it requiring me to berate it into simplicity.
For some discrete skills I use, I include a final step on the the output that runs through 1+ subagents to de-slop the text and to actually simplify it, but so far nothing has worked as well I've hoped. Considering hopping off Anthropic's models to try out others to see if they're less egregious.
Klathmon 22 minutes ago [-]
I've been having a fantastic time telling it to use ASD-STE100 Simplified Technical English (or use a skill for it, I've been playing with [1])
It's a very clear and understandable way of writing that puts priority on clarity.
It gets rid of the flowery language, the dense jaron, and the weird corporate marketing speak they tend to do. It is a bit repetitive, and it sometimes doesn't always wfit well in every situation, but for technical writing or explanations it's been such an incredible breath of fresh air!
Yeah I hit this feeling with Claude one too many times and switched from Anthropic Pro to OpenAI Pro. GPT-5.6 so far has been a significantly better technical writer in my opinion, and it's much faster in conversations. My guess is that Claude's fantasy-jargon is a symptom of training failure, not a sneaky intelligence edge (I could be wrong).
Tangential but I use OpenCode with GPT-5.6 rather than Codex because I could not figure out how to require Codex to ask me before editing files. OpenCode UX is still imperfect though.
andai 3 hours ago [-]
Well, now I had to ask an LLM to give me examples of what "deictic language" means...
bigfishrunning 3 hours ago [-]
or you could just look up the word...in a dictionary.
1 hours ago [-]
mancerayder 2 hours ago [-]
which you get on mobile browsers by just highlighting and long pressing the word.
frazzleberryman 2 hours ago [-]
Heaven forefend
7402 6 hours ago [-]
I don't like it when the LLM tries to be my friend. My general prompt (a work in progress) is this. I wonder what other people use.
"Answer impersonally, objectively and analytically, without undue friendliness or enthusiasm. Use an engineering style response: concise, factual, and complete. Do not speak in the first person. Do not promote engagement or an emotional connection. Do not use emojis."
GMoromisato 3 hours ago [-]
I watched 2001: A Space Odyssey when I was about 12 years old and I remember thinking that Frank Poole was impersonal and almost rude to HAL. I kept thinking, "Why can't you be nicer? You're treating HAL like a servant." Of course, later HAL kills him, so I had to revise my opinion.
At the end of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" [if I'm remembering correctly] Deckard finds a toad in the desert. He gives it to his wife(!) and she immediately bonds with it. Later they realize that it is mechanical (they find a battery compartment). But Deckard's wife still treats it like a real creature and wonders whether it will eat mechanical flies.
The core theme of "Do Androids Dream..." is that humans display empathy towards others, not because others deserve it, but because we are human. To be human is to empathize with other creatures, and when we stop empathizing, we stop being human.
This morning I was working with Codex and we found the solution to a really nasty bug. I was so happy/relieved/excited to have found it, and I shared my excitement with Codex. I know Codex is just a big matmul. I know it doesn't experience joy or surprise or empathy. But I still want it to behave excited, not because it is human, but because I am.
red75prime 3 minutes ago [-]
> I know it doesn't experience joy or surprise or empathy.
You don't know. You strongly feel that you know.
comradesmith 1 hours ago [-]
This is why I say please to agents, and I’ll say thank you or good job if I have a follow up.
Chatting with an agent using language feels like talking to an assistant.
I don’t think my meat brain is able to really differentiate between writing a message to an agent versus writing an agent to a human.
I’ll keep being polite and grateful to agents, so that I maintain those social habits for when I talk to humans.
tuesdaynight 39 minutes ago [-]
I thought about doing that, but I decided not to. I'm just afraid of forgetting that people are different from these LLM tools. I'm afraid of considering people dumb or uninteresting because they don't sound as smart as Claude or whatever.
HurimotoNBonn 2 hours ago [-]
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prymitive 5 hours ago [-]
+1 it’s a tool
It’s not perfect, it has shortcomings, it sometimes produces bogus outputs. All of that is fine for a tool, it’s not fine when it pretends it’s a conscious being, because errors start to feel like lies and it becomes a bit too personal.
MSFT_Edging 4 hours ago [-]
People want it to be Data from Star Trek, when it really should be the ship's computer. I want to tell it to run a simulation accurately, create some solved tool, etc.
I don't think there's any correction that can return LLMs to a purely tool-space. Too many AI boyfriend/girlfriends.
cortesoft 4 hours ago [-]
Shouldn't it be whatever the user wants? If they want the ship's computer, it should be that, if they want Data, it should be that.
MarkusQ 4 hours ago [-]
You can want your e-scooter to be a jet ski, but you'll wind up having issues when you try to use it as one. LLMs are _really good_ at pretending to be something they aren't, but not always so good at being that thing, so you should be careful what you ask for.
edgyquant 3 hours ago [-]
At some level if it’s good enough at pretending what’s the difference?
MarkusQ 3 hours ago [-]
The difference is what happens when you come to depend on it. Do you want your airplane to be flown by a pilot, or someone who's so good at talking like a pilot that they can fool almost everyone?
frazzleberryman 2 hours ago [-]
That’s the whole industry right now though isn’t it?
doctoboggan 4 hours ago [-]
Yes, this really ought to be trained in (or at least RLHF'd in) but that would hurt engagement numbers so the opposite is done instead.
These are tools and it would behoove us all to keep that top of mind. Dangerous tools that are not your friend (but are useful as tools nonetheless)
jay_kyburz 2 hours ago [-]
I've been having fun doing the exact opposite. I like to ask the AI to speak to me with a think Australian accent, think Steve Irwin. It chucks in heaps of colloquialisms and slang. I find it much easier to read.
I do ask it not to ask it follow on questions. I find that derails my own train of thought.
4 hours ago [-]
cindyllm 3 hours ago [-]
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Animats 4 hours ago [-]
Well, what do you expect? LLMs are trained on blithering, mostly from web sites. So you get blithering out.
There's an important point in the article, that forcing a style onto an LLM is lossy. Although he doesn't seem to mention it, forcing a style may result in the insertion of new blithering, possibly made up as a hallucination.
capnrefsmmat 58 minutes ago [-]
> Well, what do you expect? LLMs are trained on blithering, mostly from web sites. So you get blithering out.
I realize this isn't entirely serious, but I can't resist pointing out that this doesn't seem to be a good explanation for why LLMs write the way they do. When we've experimented with LLM writing style on open-weights models where you can get a base model (pretraining on text only) and an instruction-tuned variant (pretraining + post-training with RLHF and whatever other human-evaluated tasks), it's the instruction-tuned variant that shows the weird writing quirks. That is, the writing style is not because of the training texts, but because of whatever tasks the LLM companies do in instruction tuning. https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.16107
I'd speculate that this is partly impressed human preferences (the human raters unintentionally reward a particular writing style) and partly because of the chosen tasks: they're training the LLM to be good at, say, summarizing text, so it develops a style that's good at being informationally dense.
At any rate I've seen this same phenomenon with Llama and Gemma, and will be trying soon with Qwen. Unfortunately none of the commercial models lets you access the base model, as far as I know.
mjburgess 4 hours ago [-]
I think that was a good enough explanation for gpt3.5 -- these days, labs are extremely capable of post-training phases that eclipse that kind of training phase -- and hence of choosing whatever style or tone they wish.
eg., OpenAI has gone a long way to making reasoning token-efficient by having reasoning piovot off terse langauge -- whereas anthropic appears to be doing the opposite.
amelius 2 hours ago [-]
> Well, what do you expect? LLMs are trained on blithering, mostly from web sites. So you get blithering out.
AI labs can now ask the LLM to translate and filter the data, to create new training data that makes more sense and has better style.
krupan 1 hours ago [-]
And I'm sure nothing is lost when that's done ;)
efficax 3 hours ago [-]
is it lossy though? That didn't make sense to me. You can tell it to use Simplified Technical Language and also still have it give you all the detail. it's just another piece of the prompt that produces the output. it's not like there's "pure" llm output and then "lossy" output guided by a prompt.
tempestn 2 hours ago [-]
The issue is that anything you put in the prompt gets considered along with all the other stuff you put in the prompt. There's no way (currently) to give instructions for how to format the output that don't also affect all of the 'reasoning' along the way. So if you tell it to do everything normally, but to end every response with "Cheers", you won't just get that; you'll get different responses than you would have otherwise.
This is pretty unfortunate, because every LLM I've used has at least one tic that I find quite annoying. It would be great to be able to eliminate them. Sometimes I do, even knowing this drawback. But there is generally a cost. (Though I don't know if "lossy" is quite right, as that implies it's always a degradation. I think it's more likely to be harmful than helpful, given the models were tuned for their default state, but it is more of a random perturbation with a slight negative bias than a strict loss.)
firefoxd 5 hours ago [-]
And on the "input" side, one thing that used to improve google search result was to write like you are talking to a robot. "Ruby on rails http header set function". As opposed to "how do I set header in ruby?" Then you have to page through results until you find something specific to rails.
Now, the second example is the only thing that works. Power users have lost their powers with AI overview.
skydhash 4 hours ago [-]
I still use the first strategy (with DDG) and it still works great. But for technologies I work often, I just take a bit of time to familiarize with the site's structure and maybe bookmarks a few pages.
pholden 1 hours ago [-]
> A subagent investigates a bug, turns its findings into a nice human-readable summary, the parent agent reads that summary, and then turns it into another nice human-readable summary for you.
> Output styles apply to the main conversation only: a subagent runs its own system prompt, so styles don’t change how subagents respond. A fork is the exception, because it inherits the parent’s full system prompt.
boredumb 2 hours ago [-]
I do think the frontier models and providers should be aiming to be as insanely accurate and precise for machine interfacing as possible, the rest of the world can build a zillion interfaces into it based on the context that they are actually being used in. That's what they are going to end up doing they just seem to all be trying to build a really great API _for the future_ and a really cool chat bot.
It has worked great but i've spent more time beating LLM output into parseable output than I have reading and appreciating the prose it sends when i'm asking it something about some snippets of code.
yellowflash 3 hours ago [-]
But the training data is "predominantly" human written sentences or even interaction. It's like asking you to use non dominant hand to do something. Won't they do better with human sounding english, rather than a made up format text? Are there any literature around this? I was also skeptical of this caveman extension etc.. Won't they work better in their actual language space it's trained on rather than made up language?
stillpointlab 5 hours ago [-]
One thing that continues to give me pause is Fable's insistence on using my fist name in messages and docs. Like, I'll explain what I want to the AI and ask it to write out a spec or brief and Fable says "Jamie wants me to ...". It just feels different and unprofessional. If I was at a job and a PM asked me to write up a task spec I wouldn't say "Harold wants to add <feature> ...". And since I am the one reading the output it is also superfluous and almost feels like talking about myself in third person. But there is almost a kind of glee in the way it uses my name, like a student using their teachers first name when the custom is to use Mr/Mrs.
scubbo 4 hours ago [-]
Fair perspective, though I actually prefer this for two reasons:
* When it's proposing responses for me to choose between, a description like "I close the PR and you make a followup" is ambiguous - is "I" there "the entity making the proposition (the LLM)" or "the entity making the choice (me)".
* I have a line in my `AGENTS.md` specifically instructing it to call me by my name; if it stops doing so, that's a telltale that context-bloat is pushing out other instructions.
zamadatix 4 hours ago [-]
I usually leave memory/connections turned off. Remembering/finding out what my name would be is not really something I want to waste context or tokens in, let alone any if the other things it tries to assume I'd like it to remember/find.
twobitshifter 3 hours ago [-]
I am at a conference and 2/3rds of the presentations are AI assisted based on the numbered steps, and overall inhuman polish of some of the graphics and phrasing. I would prefer that they had been humanized because at least that may have given me the misimpression that they know what they were talking about.
kuberwastaken 2 hours ago [-]
Totally fair, I meant more in the context of coding agents - should've been specific ; I hate heavily AI-designed presentations too.
99954bb63ccc 1 hours ago [-]
I have often thought that without LLMs humanizing outputs they would not have caught on, even if they output the exact same data/answers. The way they answer is way more important than their output for success, IMO.
mdp2021 6 hours ago [-]
Suppose you had an LLM (NN) producing its default output from an input (a generally optimal for-most-cases role-sys, and any role-user), and then you wanted to have that output reformatted in some style (e.g. "In iambic pentameter" | "haiku" | "eli5" | "in the style of Feynman" | "bulleted like Axios" ...). How would you keep the internal NN workings that were basis for the original output, and use them to get a rewritten version (instead of placing the original query and output in the context and ask to rewrite it)?
In other words, is there a way to keep the internal process intact up to the point of the formulation - and have only that vary.
Havoc 6 hours ago [-]
> The problem is that these instructions are not applied after the model has finished doing the work
Seems like something fixable with a simple two step process. Ask it the thing. Then ask it to summarise the answer in simpler terms. More tokens and time aside that would check both boxes
kuberwastaken 6 hours ago [-]
pretty much what I do, better yet ask it to boil it down in visuals in a simple webpage if it's a very large project
StyloBill 6 hours ago [-]
Should be a harness feature actually.
acaloiar 35 minutes ago [-]
I think you're missing the point. People loading these skills and complaining about LLM output aren't trying to "humanise" anything. They're saying LLM output is an affront to language and they're tired of reading drivel all day.
pshirshov 51 minutes ago [-]
Maybe it is dumb, but sometimes it is SO fun, especially when you run a complex meta.
ramoz 1 hours ago [-]
> The problem is that these instructions are not applied after the model has finished doing the work, it becomes part of the same work -
I don't get it. The skills and instruction try to make the answer more machine like on purpose.
Not humanising it...
People want the terse, matter-of-fact output. Not the conversational chatty verbose and bloated nonsense with gray words and jargon and terms like "blast radius"
pixl97 2 hours ago [-]
Which people exactly?
The problem we have is a few large and expensive models are trying to be everything to everyone.
alansaber 6 hours ago [-]
The article lost me when it implied that verbose drivel is actually intrinsically superior rather than a way to hedge bets
agenticworldcup 5 hours ago [-]
Yes, but the sycophantic responses are the worst.
thenthenthen 5 hours ago [-]
I have been using chatgpt for a while and its awkward, yesterday i tried gemini and its like a breath of fresh air.
51Cards 4 hours ago [-]
If you're finding Gemini "clean and straightforward" give it awhile. I felt the same thing too when I switched until I realized that it just hadn't formed a model for my communications yet. After awhile it became just as flowery as ChatGPT did. I had to tone both down with saved preferences.
bartleeanderson 2 hours ago [-]
This is simply a rendering issue. Specify pictures, ELI5 like others have said. Ask it to explain terms you don't understand. If you don't understand something it could just be the domain. If you have no grounding you are going to need to learn the vocabulary to be able to make sense of anything. Having it decomposed to simpler words might just be the wrong way to do it.
alansaber 6 hours ago [-]
Not sure what happened in the blog, but I quite enjoyed the mindmap in the right panel
kuberwastaken 6 hours ago [-]
Thanks, I guess haha :P
raver1975 4 hours ago [-]
Someone is finally making good sense up in here.
conguy 3 hours ago [-]
Honest Short Fall -- <insert 30 lines of useless shit>.
If the author wants to read slop for hours, be my guest. Make it lossy, my job is not to read mimetic feelings, it's to make sure implementations get implemented.
Humanizing the LLM output is a hedge against agents hitting a wall and someone having to reason through it by hand.
mthoms 4 hours ago [-]
There's some good points made here about losing fidelity by over-simplification. As an ADHD sufferer, I'd take this piece much more seriously if the title wasn't so belittling.
I don't think it's wise to take communication advice from someone so helplessly juvenile (and attention seeking) in their own communication attempts.
slowmovintarget 5 hours ago [-]
At first I read the title and mistook it for an argument against the anthropomorphism of LLMs. It isn't. Instead it's a take on suggesting that maybe it's a bad idea to dumb down the self-chatter in the process. A reasonable take.
It isn't deliberately unhinged like Steve Yegge's take: https://yegge.ai/essays/model-welfare/ In Steve's essay he starts with the assertion that agents are sentient... Whether or not that's true isn't really relevant, as his agent-flavored version of Pascal's wager actually holds water, especially for Anthropic models, as their system prompts already push the model in that direction, and it is better to work with them than try to prompt against the tide.
wpdevant 4 hours ago [-]
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acarlson1029 7 hours ago [-]
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keybrd-intrrpt 3 hours ago [-]
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spwa4 6 hours ago [-]
TLDR: This is an argument to get LLMs to answer in short, even code-like statements because you can exchange information quicker with an LLM that way. Cool!
sandblast 4 hours ago [-]
It is not. You got it backwards.
krupan 1 hours ago [-]
The article is pretty self contradictory on this, so ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯
baud9600 3 hours ago [-]
> “The largest tell for me to tell where culture and sentiment is shifting…”
Tell? Largest “tell”? Tell for me to tell?
Write in English, please:
“The biggest sign that shows me how culture and sentiment are changing, is…”
vsri 25 minutes ago [-]
It is an expression from poker. A "tell" is a revealing signal that a player may give (inadvertently) that they have good or bad cards. "His tell is that he is holding his cards close to his chest."
In other contexts it means a revealing signal.
kuberwastaken 3 hours ago [-]
> In English, a tell is an unconscious physical or verbal sign that reveals what a person is secretly thinking, feeling, or trying to hide.
Yeah, for me, that's what parsing huge volumes of LLM-produced text like "direct model calls as replaceable semantic workers" does to my brain. Maybe others don't really have this issue, but after any long output, I prompt the agent "Go back and decompress any LLM-speak in light of the higher level task goals. Eliminate deictic language."
The revised output documents are solely for my personal usage to expedite understanding. The LLMs can slowly converge on their own language for all I care; I retain raw agent output for future agent usage (to avoid the "lossy" problem the author mentions), but that doesn't eliminate the need for some intermediate translation I can use to actually help get my work done instead of spending hours attempting to understand what a "load-bearing pinned gate" is.
I've come to believe this is also a side effect of the desire for less (/goal: no) human in the loop on the part of the people driving all this capex spend. I think if you actually want to manually review output there will be a moment where you will actually want a separate interface to a stupider or "simpler" model. I suspect sometimes dealing with Fable 5 that this threshold has already been crossed. It's not that the raw code output is so good, it's that it just doesn't speak to me in a way I would like. Perhaps the verbosity is worthwhile when generating code as a sort of first pass some other model can auto or adversarially chop down. The best place for a human is probably outside of this part of the loop all together.
So I might as well just let it auto /goal it's own thing with sufficient constraints while myself and a model that can converse in parallel with less "deictic" (thanks for this word btw) volume as you put it for the areas of the code where I want to "frame" the vocabulary or where my personal understanding is of high value. I know people already do this in many ways, like use one company's model for planning and another for coding. It just feels inevitable at a certain point that the "natural language" output of LLMs writing the bulk of the code is not targeted towards humans. And really, why should it be?
Good point, there's an anti-competitive incentive, and self-bias in models is a mechanism to do it.
If I see a long paragraph and I know the author is Neal Stephenson I think “this is going to be dense but good.” LLM long outputs on a code base I know well just make me glassy eyed.
For some discrete skills I use, I include a final step on the the output that runs through 1+ subagents to de-slop the text and to actually simplify it, but so far nothing has worked as well I've hoped. Considering hopping off Anthropic's models to try out others to see if they're less egregious.
It's a very clear and understandable way of writing that puts priority on clarity.
It gets rid of the flowery language, the dense jaron, and the weird corporate marketing speak they tend to do. It is a bit repetitive, and it sometimes doesn't always wfit well in every situation, but for technical writing or explanations it's been such an incredible breath of fresh air!
[1] https://github.com/AminBlg/SimpleEnglish
Tangential but I use OpenCode with GPT-5.6 rather than Codex because I could not figure out how to require Codex to ask me before editing files. OpenCode UX is still imperfect though.
"Answer impersonally, objectively and analytically, without undue friendliness or enthusiasm. Use an engineering style response: concise, factual, and complete. Do not speak in the first person. Do not promote engagement or an emotional connection. Do not use emojis."
At the end of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" [if I'm remembering correctly] Deckard finds a toad in the desert. He gives it to his wife(!) and she immediately bonds with it. Later they realize that it is mechanical (they find a battery compartment). But Deckard's wife still treats it like a real creature and wonders whether it will eat mechanical flies.
The core theme of "Do Androids Dream..." is that humans display empathy towards others, not because others deserve it, but because we are human. To be human is to empathize with other creatures, and when we stop empathizing, we stop being human.
This morning I was working with Codex and we found the solution to a really nasty bug. I was so happy/relieved/excited to have found it, and I shared my excitement with Codex. I know Codex is just a big matmul. I know it doesn't experience joy or surprise or empathy. But I still want it to behave excited, not because it is human, but because I am.
You don't know. You strongly feel that you know.
Chatting with an agent using language feels like talking to an assistant.
I don’t think my meat brain is able to really differentiate between writing a message to an agent versus writing an agent to a human.
I’ll keep being polite and grateful to agents, so that I maintain those social habits for when I talk to humans.
It’s not perfect, it has shortcomings, it sometimes produces bogus outputs. All of that is fine for a tool, it’s not fine when it pretends it’s a conscious being, because errors start to feel like lies and it becomes a bit too personal.
I don't think there's any correction that can return LLMs to a purely tool-space. Too many AI boyfriend/girlfriends.
These are tools and it would behoove us all to keep that top of mind. Dangerous tools that are not your friend (but are useful as tools nonetheless)
I do ask it not to ask it follow on questions. I find that derails my own train of thought.
There's an important point in the article, that forcing a style onto an LLM is lossy. Although he doesn't seem to mention it, forcing a style may result in the insertion of new blithering, possibly made up as a hallucination.
I realize this isn't entirely serious, but I can't resist pointing out that this doesn't seem to be a good explanation for why LLMs write the way they do. When we've experimented with LLM writing style on open-weights models where you can get a base model (pretraining on text only) and an instruction-tuned variant (pretraining + post-training with RLHF and whatever other human-evaluated tasks), it's the instruction-tuned variant that shows the weird writing quirks. That is, the writing style is not because of the training texts, but because of whatever tasks the LLM companies do in instruction tuning. https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.16107
I'd speculate that this is partly impressed human preferences (the human raters unintentionally reward a particular writing style) and partly because of the chosen tasks: they're training the LLM to be good at, say, summarizing text, so it develops a style that's good at being informationally dense.
At any rate I've seen this same phenomenon with Llama and Gemma, and will be trying soon with Qwen. Unfortunately none of the commercial models lets you access the base model, as far as I know.
eg., OpenAI has gone a long way to making reasoning token-efficient by having reasoning piovot off terse langauge -- whereas anthropic appears to be doing the opposite.
AI labs can now ask the LLM to translate and filter the data, to create new training data that makes more sense and has better style.
This is pretty unfortunate, because every LLM I've used has at least one tic that I find quite annoying. It would be great to be able to eliminate them. Sometimes I do, even knowing this drawback. But there is generally a cost. (Though I don't know if "lossy" is quite right, as that implies it's always a degradation. I think it's more likely to be harmful than helpful, given the models were tuned for their default state, but it is more of a random perturbation with a slight negative bias than a strict loss.)
Now, the second example is the only thing that works. Power users have lost their powers with AI overview.
Is that a problem with https://code.claude.com/docs/en/output-styles?
> Output styles apply to the main conversation only: a subagent runs its own system prompt, so styles don’t change how subagents respond. A fork is the exception, because it inherits the parent’s full system prompt.
It has worked great but i've spent more time beating LLM output into parseable output than I have reading and appreciating the prose it sends when i'm asking it something about some snippets of code.
In other words, is there a way to keep the internal process intact up to the point of the formulation - and have only that vary.
Seems like something fixable with a simple two step process. Ask it the thing. Then ask it to summarise the answer in simpler terms. More tokens and time aside that would check both boxes
This is why /bro skill works.
https://github.com/backnotprop/bro/blob/main/skills/bro/SKIL...
https://x.com/dillon_mulroy/status/2079238358358778142?s=20
Not humanising it...
People want the terse, matter-of-fact output. Not the conversational chatty verbose and bloated nonsense with gray words and jargon and terms like "blast radius"
The problem we have is a few large and expensive models are trying to be everything to everyone.
If the author wants to read slop for hours, be my guest. Make it lossy, my job is not to read mimetic feelings, it's to make sure implementations get implemented.
(ICLR 2026)
(not actually sorry)
I don't think it's wise to take communication advice from someone so helplessly juvenile (and attention seeking) in their own communication attempts.
It isn't deliberately unhinged like Steve Yegge's take: https://yegge.ai/essays/model-welfare/ In Steve's essay he starts with the assertion that agents are sentient... Whether or not that's true isn't really relevant, as his agent-flavored version of Pascal's wager actually holds water, especially for Anthropic models, as their system prompts already push the model in that direction, and it is better to work with them than try to prompt against the tide.
Tell? Largest “tell”? Tell for me to tell?
Write in English, please:
“The biggest sign that shows me how culture and sentiment are changing, is…”
In other contexts it means a revealing signal.